We all have friends, right? The good, the bad, and the nice haters… Can you tell which among them are which?
In this episode, Heather brings in Stefanie Shaugnessy to talk all about friendship, relationships, support community, navigating the world of business and success with the people around you, and the nice haters which you will have a clear understanding of after listening to this episode.
Stefanie Shaughnessy is a former law enforcement officer turned entrepreneur, a suicide prevention advocate, a brand ambassador, instructor and coach at Atmana Academy. She is a wife, a mother, and a long-time friend of Heather.
Tune in ‘til the end to connect with Stefanie and support her plexus and her podcast as well called The Alpha Energy Collective Podcast. Links are also provided below. Enjoy!
Soul Stirring Quotes:
“We’re more than just our professional career. We’re more than just a mom. We’re more than just a sister or we’re more than just a friend.”
“What I really appreciate about community and connection and I think more women are realizing it is the secret weapon to success. It really is. Having true support, having true friendship.”
“I’m actually thoroughly convinced within myself that if you don’t have some type of supportive community, very few people are going to make it.”
“Hard time friends, good time friends. They’re not the same friends.”
“You have to start making conscious choices to move in specific directions.”
“We should strive to be kind, not nice.”
“Nice is a fake kind. Kindness is something you can’t fake.”
“How do you know you have a real friend? Two things. One, you can share successes and they are genuinely happy for you. And the second thing is you can tell them very bad news and they will be sad with you.”
“You’ve got to cultivate the life that you want to cultivate and know that you get to make conscious decisions about who comes into your life. And as you take that ownership, you will attract those soul sister friends.”
00:27 Heather introduces her guest and her long-time friend, Stefanie
02:48 Stefanie talks about her background and what brought her to this point
04:42 What it means to have a support community
07:04 The nice hater profile
11:12 The hard time vs. the good time friends
14:11 The people there for you for the right/not right reasons
23:13 You have a conscious choice of who gets to come into your life
27:58 Let go of the people that are not good for you and the self-blame
33:46 Know the red flags
35:14 The competitive nice hater
36:13 The passive aggressive nice hater
37:35 The concerned nice hater
40:27 The “I just want to help you” nice hater
46:00 The two-faced nice hater
48:20 Life goes on no matter what
52:11 How to connect with Stefanie
53:52 Wrapping up
Connect with Stefanie
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Heather Alice: Welcome to the everyday intuitive podcast. I’m your host, Heather, Alice Shea intuitive life coach trainer status quo, shaker and founder of Atmana coaching academy. Listen in each week to break up with your comfort zone claim your self-confidence and radically embrace your role as an intuitive healer mentor and sought-after coach let’s get within and get after it.
Steph, it’s amazing to have you on the show.
Heather Alice: I’ve been waiting for this day. I know, man. We’re like, plus a decade in the making of doing a podcast together. I’m so happy that you’re here. I’m gonna do a quick intro of you and how we met, and then I’m gonna let you kind of tell, um, everybody. A little bit more about your story and your background, um, and what brought you, you know, to this place in your life.
So Steph and I met, oh my goodness. I’d say it’s about 10 years now. Right? Maybe even over 10 years. I think it’s been a little over 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. We met at a baby shower of a mutual friend. And have you ever just. Like walked into a room with a person and you see them and you’re instantly like, you’re my person.
So I met steph. We instantly connected and just became fast friends, uh, always supporting each other and each and every, you know, step we have taken in our lives. We’re now working together in Monte. Stephanie is one of our master coaches. She is an instructor here and she also. Owns her own six-figure business as a plexus ambassador.
She’s like one of those one percentage who’s gone doubled she’s diamond. She re-entry as a diamond. She’s like the top 1% complete badass at what she does. So now she and I work together. We’ve worked together for about two years in Atmana. I’m also on her plexus team. So I think our friendship and the support that we offer.
One another is I think it perfectly positions us to talk about our topic today, which is that of the nice hater. So we are gonna be talking today about female friendships, people in your life that maybe you’ve outgrown. People in your life that maybe, you know, they fit at one point, but you kind of have a question mark about them as you grow and ascend a, a key characteristic of this is, you know, maybe people you had in your life for a long time don’t need to be there.
So I really feel like. Steph, you’re just the perfect person to have this conversation with because we have grown together over the years. So, well, right. So why don’t you tell everybody a little bit about you, your backgrounds and what brought you to this point, and then also why you’re really passionate about supporting women and really looking at the underbelly of this topic, which is the nice hater.
Stephanie: Yeah. I mean, our. Personally and professionally have like intertwined so beautifully. It’s uh, 100% was meant to be, I. Like to tell people that I’m an accidental network marketer
Heather Alice: mm-hmm it definitely
Stephanie: was something. If somebody would’ve said this to me, like when I met you, I was working in law enforcement.
I had been in law enforcement for almost 15 years and really worked hard. I was a workaholic. I loved what I did. I worked my way to a detective position, which was ultimately where I truly wanted to go. and 15 years into that became a mom. And it just put me on this new trajectory. It didn’t happen overnight.
It was kind of a gradual thing, but I found myself in this place of just like, what now? What do I do? And I really, I wanted, I knew I needed something for myself outside of motherhood. And I just, I couldn’t see how I could stay in that job as much as I wanted to at the time, because you know, you know, my husband works in it and it was really hard for both of us to do it.
So, you know, I stumbled into plexus worldwide, cuz somebody shared that with me and I’ve always been a big believer in of supplements. I had gut health issues. Oh, figure in law enforcement and, uh, I just love the stuff and I just started telling people about it. And as this business started to grow, my husband really encouraged me to he’s like, what would this look like if you gave this a hundred percent?
Cause I just kind of had, you know, my foot in the door. and that’s how it started. And, you know, we’ve had numerous talks about, you know, it was, it was definitely a scary, vulnerable time for me, huge transition. And one of the things I miss so much out of leaving is the community. Like you’re a part of a family, you know, and it didn’t take me long to realize like plexus and definitely Atmana has given me that.
And that’s something we hear all the time. About our teams and our, the students and the clients in it’s like, what are you here for support community? Mm-hmm, , shit’s really hard to do alone.
Heather Alice: Yep. Yeah. So, and by shit, meaning just life, just life, whether it’s business life. Yeah. It’s really challenging. And so it’s really beautiful how you embrace that transition out of really leadership in law enforcement to leading other women.
Who were really, you know, I think struggling and I, I see this in Mont as well to start cultivating a life that allows them to honor all parts of themselves. We’re more than just our professional career. We’re more than just a mom. We’re more than just a sister. We’re more than just a friend. Right? Mm-hmm so yeah, what I really appreciate about community and connection, and I think more women are realizing it is the secret weapon to success.
It really is having true support, having true friendship. You might not even be on the same journey for the longest time. I wasn’t, you weren’t in , you weren’t doing coaching. I wasn’t doing Plex, whatever, but we were always there in the background, cheering each other on you would rank up and plexus and I’d be on your feed saying.
Hell. Yeah. Sister, go spread those wings and fly. You know, when I was in graduate school, you were a massive cheerleader of mine. And, you know, in taking up Monte to the seven figure, mark, you’ve been there every single step of the way. So why I think this topic is really important is because I really do think that beyond.
The meaning and purpose and fulfillment. It gives us to have true sisterhood, true connection, true support with people who actually wanna see us win. I actually now believe that theres. There’s little chance of success at whatever business or career endeavor, whether that looks like it’s part-time for you, full-time for you, whether that’s plexus, whether it’s a coaching business, I don’t care what it is.
I’m actually thoroughly convinced within myself that if you don’t have some type of supportive community, very few people are going to make it. It’s like you said, it’s just too hard. So one of the things I think you and I, and we’re gonna get into the shit of it right now. I want us to just like really share let’s share some of the, the, the stories, right?
I think S step and I, our intention with this podcast is to show you the not so nice side of what it means to walk in your purpose and some of the stumbling box that you find along the way and step, and I are gonna share. You know, honoring of course, confidentiality and not trying to call anybody out too much, but you know, sharing our own story and what it has been like to raise our hand, to become a leader, to say yes to our destiny, to unapologetically put our families first.
You know, when Liam was born, you were like, yeah, probably not gonna be heard and drunk down at the beach bars. You know, for 17 bucks an hour, probably gonna go do this network marketing thing and let people roll their eyes at me all day long, because I’m not gonna die in these streets when I have an eight month old baby at home.
Right. right. So just, just being unapologetic about walking in our purpose, but there’s a lot that comes with that. And I think it’s this concept of what did we call him back in the nineties? The two faced people who are two faced the fake friends, the poses, the haters. I had a moment recently where I was like, you know, this hater, I was encountering a hater and I’m like, you know what?
But this hater is really nice. This is a nice hater man. And it, it just . And Stephanie was like, oh, we should do a podcast on that. You know? So that’s really what we’re gonna get into. And Steph, you had mentioned that you’re a detective. I thought it would be fun for us to do, and she used to be a homicide detective.
Can you believe that? Oh my God. As also an intuitive, can you imagine what your like, God, we should do a podcast on just the stories you have of being an intuitive. Who is a homicide detective, but I thought it would be fun for us to use the concept of like the profile of a nice hater. Like how do we
Stephanie: how do we identify the nice hater, right.
They blended to the ground. They seem so nice in the beginning, you know,
Heather Alice: so really we just wanna sort of help you in your life. Maybe reassess some of the relationships or friendships that you have that maybe once we’re healthy, but, eh, there’s a question mark over ’em today. So I’ll kick it over to you, Steph.
Like, what are your thoughts on the phenomenon of the nice hater? Like what’s your take on what’s going on today? Well, you know,
Stephanie: when, when we talked about having this topic, I was like, in my mind, and I said this to you. I said, this comes down to having like a really real and raw conversation about friendships and relationships.
Mm-hmm and you and I are we’re the same age. We, you know, we are in our mid forties. And you said to me, not long ago in the last year or two, you said it’s just really apparent and very, very, very apparent and obvious to me. Women who have not done their work, right? Oh yeah. Mm-hmm so I think like, I know for me, I was pretty idealistic about friendships when I was younger.
Like we’re gonna be friends forever. yeah.
Heather Alice: I will die for you. I will take a bullet in the skull for you rewrite a Dawn. Do I bring a gun, a shovel or both? I’ve got yes.
Stephanie: And I, I swear. And I heard somewhere friends come into your life where people. Friendships are, how does it go, are coming to your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime mm-hmm
And I definitely in my twenties was, I mean, I don’t know too many people that weren’t and I know I was, my early twenties was just kind of a personal shit show. I was just going into law enforcement. I knew I wanted to do that, but I was just all over the place. Didn’t really, you know, have a lot of goals.
And it was really my job that started pointing me toward. Understanding the concept of personal professional development, you know, and making myself better and wanting to be better and all that. And that got magnified when I got into business, especially as an entrepreneur, because you know, this is all about, like, this is all about you.
So I guess for me, One thing that has really stuck out to me. You and I, well, first of all, let me say you and I have had a lot of success just in the last couple years, right? Oh yeah. 2020 was as much of a shit show as that was like, we went, we hit major milestones. Mm-hmm professional achievement that year together.
And one of the revelations I, I had throughout that since then is, you know, it’s one thing. Like we, we always say we have hard time friends. Like when you’re in hard times, you know, down and out, the people that are there for you. I am noticing now who’s there for me when I’m at the peak. Yeah. When I’m, when I’m on top of the mountain, who is there for me, cheering me on cheering on my success applauding, and it’s been pretty
Heather Alice: eyeopening to see very eyeopening.
Right. Who’s dipped
Stephanie: out. Who’s congratulated me in private, who, you know, who just isn’t there. So I, I mean, that was, that’s something that I’ve been just kinda. Keenly aware of it’s just like certain people have just kind of faded off, you know,
Heather Alice: which is another one of those underbelly things. And I think we have an intuition as women.
I think we have a notion or an inkling of that, and we’re scared of it. We’re scared to find out who’s gonna ghost you who’s in your life because they perceive you as being someone who’s just barely getting along too. And then when you pull out ahead and you really start crushing. It’s a head scratcher to me.
I can’t say that I have figured that out yet. Like why does that happen? It’s very hurtful. Like, I, I totally agree with you in 2020, especially. And in 2021, that was a refinement year for me. I was. Shocked at the people that I thought really had my back. So I love this notion. I love how you’re teasing that out.
Like hard time friends, good time friends. They’re not the same friends, man. Like maybe they’re not right. Very few are going to really love you. Um, and be there for you in under both of those conditions. And I can’t say I understand why it is that way. Like why do people not wanna be around you when you’re winning or feel like they can’t, it’s just a success is really weird.
It, it brings out weird, weird, weird things in people. It’s just, I never thought that that would be the case. So yeah. I hear you on that.
Stephanie: Yep. Yeah, that that’s been pretty eye opening. And just the fact that, you know, we, you and I both are big believers in getting over our own shit and doing the work on ourselves.
Like we are huge in growth mindset and wanting to be better. And how do we do this better? How do we show up better? And not everybody subscribes to. you know, so yeah, I mean, that’s been very eye opening to me and I, I will say this too. You are, because you’ve always been that friend. You’ve always championed for women to succeed and you’ve always shared.
You’d be the first one. If I was trying to play it small, that would smack the shit outta me and say, get it together. You know, you’re here to do way more, like get off your ass. Yeah. I mean, you’re absolutely that person and you, and I’ve seen you be like that with women who barely know you , which is amazing, but it does, it does put you in this place of attracting
Heather Alice: single white females and right.
Stephanie: five clingers who wanna glam on, but not for the right reasons
Heather Alice: and not for the right reasons. Yeah, yeah. Not, and that that’s been, yeah. That’s one of the characteristics. I think, of a nice. Like what I’m learning about people and what do we mean by nice hater? What I mean by somebody who walks into your life and pretends to be there, to support you, or they pretend to act like they actually care about you as a human being, right?
Like beyond your role and whatever the heck it is. You’re doing. It’s understanding and accepting that there are people out in the world that are that way. And that has been one of the hardest lessons for you and I both to learn. I just can’t believe that there are people that are like that, but you would entirely approach a person.
Like it’s just become really obvious to me over the last two years that a lot of people that tell me they wanna support me or, and I take this from a perspective of. just, I’m a human being in the world. You’re a human being in the world. And what I’ve started to realize is that that’s not, people’s motivation.
They’re they’re in your life to get something out of you or to get something out of the experience. Basically, they’re there to, I hate to say it so bluntly, but they’re there to use you mm-hmm whether they know that or not. And it’s this weird. I it’s so strange to me that that happens. And what is so interesting about this is to what you’re saying, Steph, which is the brighter you’re light.
And the more you are a champion, the more you are a true coach, right? A true, intuitive, a person who really actually does in your heart love people, it’s counterintuitive, but you will actually attract more of those people because they see you as a source of, okay, I’m gonna go. I’m gonna go sit in that energy and maybe, you know, I’ll coattail ride or this person’s got all my answers.
It’s been really, really freaking hard for me to admit to myself. That that has happened to me and that I missed it, that I didn’t see it. You know, there’s a tendency to go into a lot of self blame. Like how could I not have seen this? How could I not have known? Which is why friendships are so important because you know, Steph, you’ve been the first person to look at me and go, Heather, it’s not this isn’t your fault, right?
It’s not your fault that you just take people at face value. Like, of course you wanna be kind of course you wanna support, you know, of course you do. I’ve had to learn that. No, that’s not the case, but I also shouldn’t blame myself for not seeing that for not noticing it right. Whether the person consciously or unconsciously knows that they’re using you or knows that they are, um, You know, trying to do whatever it is.
They’ve got this ulterior motive. The reality is still the same that we have an obligation to take care of ourselves. And that is a massive part of success about achieving success in your life. That I think people don’t talk about enough cuz it’s not pleasant. Right. We don’t want to admit that this is going on, but I think we deep down, we know it, which is why we’re all scared of success.
because, you know, you’re gonna find out who’s only gonna congratulate you in private or who’s just gonna ghost, or who’s gonna now try to take advantage of you or use you. Right. Mm-hmm , that’s so true. Yeah. It’s
Stephanie: painful. And I mean, let’s be really you and I have never we don’t sit around like talking about how many haters we’re gonna have by the summertime.
Like we don’t, that’s not. We’re we’re not that’s I
Heather Alice: just wanna throw
Stephanie: that out there. It’s not like, oh my God. Everybody hates on us. Cause we’re so, we’re so
Heather Alice: great. no, not at all. We’re actually super basic in average, that’s that’s the reality of it.
Stephanie: But I wanna say that you and I have both been subjected to quote unquote friendships or interactions or relationships like that with people.
And we have walked away feeling like we’ve did something wrong in that sense. Sure. Or beat ourselves up to a certain degree. And I love what you just said. Like this is about you holding yourself to a higher standard, you know, mm-hmm because you watched me. The beginning of 2020 in January before the, the bottom fell out with this whole pandemic, I called all the leaders on my team because I had been.
Really building and working alongside of somebody in this, that where I was in this place where I wasn’t like giving, I didn’t think I was giving as much as I should to my people, instead of just broadly our teams, you know, together and, you know, in 2020, I’m like, I just, I need to step up more. I felt like this.
Like my leadership lid had been raised and I just, you know, I was ready to just take ownership of doing a lot of things solo, not because I was, you know, this isn’t like I was breaking up with the band. It was just like, I need to be, I need to just show up more and I didn’t think I, I was. And so I called all the leaders on my team.
And they were ecstatic and everybody was like, this is awesome. And amazing things happened over the next couple of months. Although we went into this pandemic, that’s when I hit the, the huge milestone I hit the top rank in may, the end of may, that year in 2020. But I, this is like, let me think of how to say this during this time.
I felt like here, I was trying to step up and be there for everybody. And I, I remember the, the feeling on my heart was, and I said this on the very first call that I did with all them, the feeling on my heart was everybody’s got a seat here at my table. Mm-hmm everybody. Totally. I don’t care. You know, everybody.
And I said that to you. We talked about this. Yep.
Heather Alice: In
Stephanie: 2021, by the end of 2021, I was kicking fucking chairs away from that table and burning them down. I know you don’t have a seat here, you know,
Heather Alice: you actually don’t because you’re not sitting. No, because you don’t want the chair for the right reasons. Yeah.
That’s what we learned the hard way, because we just assumed you wanted to be at the table. For the right reasons. And what we learned is they don’t and that’s yeah. That’s, that’s the nice hater. They’re actually not there. For, you know, for the reason that the table exists and the chair exists, right?
Right. That was a big growth edge for me to, to say, no, actually you can’t sit here with
Heather Alice: So what brought you to that? Right? Because now we’re into like, I, the, you know, the movie mean girls comes to mind, which I love with Lindsay Lohan and Rachel McAdams. Do you remember that movie from the two thousands?
Yeah. Like you can’t sit. You’re wearing sweatpants today, you know, like it can conjure up that. And I think that’s why we’re, again, we’re scared of success. Mm-hmm because we know that we’re gonna have to have these confrontations with people who aren’t freaking happy for you who are hating on you, who, who are going to hit you up in the DMS and either say overtly mean shit or be passive aggressive behind your back, or, you know, Just in, in any type of way, try to sabotage you.
Right. Mm-hmm so I wanna be really clear about this. So let’s go this way because it can seem like Ew, like you don’t, you can’t sit with us. That is not what we’re talking about at all. What we’re talking about is as a leader, as a coach, as an intuitive, if you are going to be a person who stands to shine a great light and to help people ascend and move forward, we have to be willing to let what needs to be burned away.
Be burned away. Yeah. And where I see a lot of people getting stuck is they are scared to say, you know what, actually, it’s not appropriate for you to sit at this table. And it isn’t because I don’t love you. You aren’t wonderful. You don’t, you absolutely. I see you. I see you as your higher self, you have got so much potential and all of that, but you aren’t ready to sit here and it’s inappropriate for me to let you sit here because all it is doing is making you feel bad about yourself because you can’t keep.
And you’re not ready to sit here. And all it is do is, is draining and drowning me. It is a bad scenario all the way around. So how was it that you like that was ultimately the conclusion and it was so amazing to have you to go on this journey with cuz you and I were really in this furnace of the burning away, together, feeling guilty as shit, asking ourselves, like why, why do we, why am I so drained?
Why am I so exhausted? What is wrong with me? That I’m not a good enough leader? To let these people sit at my table. It was very, very hard for us to come to this conclusion because we didn’t wanna be the mean girl. You don’t wanna be the person who’s like, actually you can’t sit here. Talk to us about, like, what was it like for you to kind of have your aha moment where you were like, actually, no, we’re gonna burn the chairs and kick ’em away.
This just isn’t serving the highest. Good of literally anyone. What was it like, how did you come to that conclusion? You know, this
Stephanie: was probably. This took me like the last four years or so. It was a cumulative thing. It, it wasn’t just like overnight. I was pissed and just cut people outta my life. That certainly didn’t happen like that.
Mm-hmm there was a couple and, and it was a couple of different friendships. It was a couple of different relationships, not just particularly one person, but I, I started to find myself constantly. In this space of being disappointed and it’s that whole notion of expectations, right? Like expecting you from other people.
And I was constantly just feeling disappointed, constantly feeling, not supported, feeling at times resentful. And so, you know, slowly, like I said, and also in a space of making excuses where people around me, like my husband, people that know me very well are like, What is the connection here? Like I just don’t see it.
You know, if it wasn’t for X, Y, Z, that brought you together with this person, you they’d be gone. Mm-hmm, , they’d be gone. This would not even be like a friend. So what’s up, like, why are you upset about like, you know, and it was just, and other friends like saying that, you know, saying the same thing. . And so I, at as much guilt as I felt, cuz I couldn’t even talk about it to you for a long time without getting emotional about it.
And you know, I don’t get emotional mm-hmm but I felt deeply convicted and emotional over. Because this was a big area of growth for me. Mm-hmm and I just came to the conclusion. I’m like, this is about me. This isn’t even about them. Mm-hmm . This is about me raising my standards personally and professionally.
And if I wanna go out there and continue to do the work I’m doing and grow and be more and more successful, I cannot. Have this person next to me, I will wave at them from across the room. I’m not going to, you know, close line you and target. If I see you, there’s no ill will. We’ve talked about this, like sure.
With, with all these people in, in the sphere like that, we’ve kind of like had this with the last couple years. I wish you, well, I wish you all the best. It’s just, I refuse to be with people who, if we’re still having the same fucking conversations, 5, 6, 7 years in a row. and you are just in the same place, you know, and, and refusing to grow like just totally against like, you’re fine.
Everything’s fine. No, it’s not fine. It really isn’t. And everybody can see that, but you, we can’t self-correct if we’re not self-aware and I just came to the realization, I’m like, I’m not being a snooty bitch. If I say I don’t care to hang out with someone. That is just in that space or time in their life, you know?
So it wasn’t an overnight thing. And like I said, I wanna reiterate, it’s not a hateful mean, girl, you know, screw you, go jump off a cliff thing. It’s just. Wow. It’s like, you’re on this elevator in life, man. You gotta let people off at certain floors, you know, cuz you’re just, you’re going up and they’re not coming with
Heather Alice: you.
Yeah. And I think it’s a sobering choice that we have to make. And I really do mean that, like I had, I remember for myself, I had this moment. First of all, it’s very hard. It’s very hard to admit that to yourself that this needs to happen because you do care about these people. And there is no ill will, for sure.
What I really realized is it actually is a conscious choice that you have to make. And if we don’t make that choice, like you said, I’m not a snooty bitch. I’m not going into self blame here. I just realize if I am going to continue to ascend, then I must. I must refine the energy around me. AKA no longer allow myself to be affected by individuals who are making choices to not exist and live at that level.
But I was shocked to discover that it’s actually a conscious choice. You’ve gotta make. And I wanna cuz you’re highlighting that, right? You just had this moment where you’re like, actually, no, I’m not gonna make excuses anymore. I don’t think that we understand. Or at least I didn’t understand that it is a conscious choice and we wonder often why we spin our wheels.
Why are we in the same place over and over again? It’s because to go to that next level, it’s not gonna just automatically happen. You have to start making conscious choices yep. To move in specific directions. Especially, you know, in terms of your business, right? Because your business is something separate from you personally altogether, right?
I think I have a responsibility to M right? Like I’m the servant of M you are the servant of, you know, your plexus business and every other person who you, you know, partner with. So I just wanna highlight that, like, in what way are, are you not giving yourself permission to continue to grow and evolve?
because there’s this self blame or this judgment, or this fear that you’re being a mean girl. And what I found on the other side of this, and I wanna share one of my, you know, stories about this. I felt guilty for a really long time, holding onto people, trying to encourage them, trying to get them, to see their brilliance.
You know, I could see their potential. I’m like, come on, you can do it. You can do it. I spent years in friendships like this. Feeling bad about it until like you, I just got to a point where I was like, this person just doesn’t give a shit. Like, I don’t think they care about this. As much as I care about it, they’re making the noises of saying they care, right.
They know all this right stuff to say, and they wanna hang out. They wanna sit at the table, but it became very obvious to me that they wanted to be there for the wrong reason. But here’s, what’s wild about what hap or at least in my case. And I’d love to hear like, kind of what happened to you when you, we make the conscious decision to say, okay, no, I’m actually gonna have a, a really healthy boundary.
What I found, not in all the cases, there’s varying degrees of this, but another shocker to me was that these people actually got one in particular, became almost delusion angry at me. For not allowing myself to continue to be used. And it was in that moment that I discovered that all of this time that the self blame, the guilt, you know, all the energy I’m pouring in.
It was on a person who actually didn’t even really care about me to begin with. It was a persona that they liked. And the minute that you cut off that, that gravy train of what you are pouring in the wisdom, the energy, the love, the encouragement, the minute that that well became dry. Oh my God. And that was another shocker for.
A huge shocker for me in this, which is how fast people can turn on you when you don’t let yourself be used anymore. At how fast people can. Yeah. Like that was just, I had no idea that that was actually a component or a part of this at all. It did. It did not even enter my world. I just thought, okay, there’s no resonance here anymore.
We’re gonna part our separate ways. And I think that’s another aspect of why we’re scared to be visible, why we’re scared to ascend because like, as much as I would love to say, you’re not gonna have these experiences, you probably are. You probably are gonna have them, you know, and the decision is okay now, what are you gonna let that stop you?
And so, um, this is a conversation you and I have had a thousand times privately and it feels really good to put it out there publicly because I want other women to understand you’re not alone, man. And also it ain’t, you. It ain’t you, you are not sister, you’re not the problem. And
Stephanie: also they know
Heather Alice: and
Stephanie: they know it.
They know it, they know it because I, even though I took those steps and like moved forward, you were the one that said to me, because I was like, well, I don’t know, like just in the realm of still making excuses. And you’re like, no, Uhuh. They know,
Heather Alice: they know, they know . Yeah. And you know, who taught me? That is Sharon.
Sharon was the one. Sharon is our VP of operations here. She’s one of our master COOs. She’s like Stephanie and Sharon. And I are like, I don’t even know what we are. We’re like the three Musketeers, but more awesome. But , so Sharon was like, fuck that they know. And I’m like, they dunno. Sharon’s like, they know, they know, like they know what I learned from that is they actually do know like deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep down.
That they know that it’s not fair. They know that there’s some type of, I guess the only way I know how to describe it is like ulterior motive. There’s some type of payoff that they want, that you’re not aware of, that they’re seeking, which is why it’s so freaking draining. It’s like a hole you can never fill.
Right. You’re just pouring in. You’re pouring in, and this doesn’t even have to be in business. Like, think about that one family member. We all, you know, that one family member you’ve got that you’ve poured into ’em you’ve tried to help ’em a thousand times and they’re still in the same damn broke ass place they’ve been since forever.
That’s the feeling we’re talking about. And I knew that in my personal life, but I thought in business, I don’t know. I was so naive. Like I just thought in business, it would be different. I thought you would just tell people very directly where you were at and people would believe that you meant it and you would make agreements and you would move forward.
And everybody would understand that everybody’s I was just so freaking naive at how nuanced this is and how. God, I hate to say it. And I do believe as women we’re getting better at this, like we are in the period of women rising where we do support each other. There are like really pure, beautiful relationships like that exists.
Yeah. Everywhere. Like, I feel like it is ubiquitous the number of women that you can have. I, I mean, I can think of 20 women right now that I trust and, you know, It’s so abundant in that way. So I do think we’ve come a long way, but I also think it’s important to have our eyes wide open and talk about the underside of this so that when you do give yourself permission, you don’t think that you’re the only one.
And on the other side of letting these people go, which is scary as hell, you’re gonna find friendships and women that resonate with you, and that are gonna grab hands with you. And then off you go. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. So what are some of the characteristics, do you feel like what I’d like to talk about now is how do you know though?
Cause I wish I would’ve known this. I wish I would’ve known some of the nice qualities that people possess that are indicators that they’re not maybe nice for the right reasons. Mm-hmm and let me qualify really. I actually don’t like, like, I think we should strive to be kind not nice to me. Nice. Is a fake kind.
nice is like how you treat people that, you know, it’s kind of like that fake smile, you know, to me in my world, like, I, I want a person to be kind to me, not necessarily ni I can be nice to somebody that I. You know, wish I could push off a cliff. Right. You can be nice to anybody but being really kind, no.
Right. Kindness is something you can’t fake. Right. And kindness also sometimes involves us saying hard truth, right? Yeah. So when I say like, nice hater, nice meaning like the fake persona or facade, they show you to cover up. That ulterior motive that they’re after that they don’t want you to see whether they hold that ulterior motive consciously or unconsciously.
It doesn’t matter. How can we, as women who are raising our hand to say yes to this, like how can we become more aware of that? Because I wish now I can very clearly see flags like red flags. Yeah. Now that I’ve been through it. So from your perspective, what do you think some of those red flags. For me,
Stephanie: something that makes me go running for the Hills, which I, I always used to say in the past, I was like, well, it doesn’t bother me so much is competition is like the competitive, you know, friend.
And I’ve always known myself to not be competitive. I’m just, I’m, I’m only getting up every day trying to kick my own ass. I don’t, I seriously. I swear to you. I have never really struggled with the comparison thing too much because I am so in my own castle, , mm-hmm, not paying attention to, you know, I do wanna say that I have not really struggled with that.
And it’s just like what you said about not seeing it, you know? When you’re not like that’s not who you are when you know, it’s that whole thing that you don’t see it because you’re not coming into this with an agenda and you’re not somebody who’s competitive. So you don’t really
Heather Alice: notice or care. You can’t see the flags cuz you don’t see them cuz you don’t see them cuz you don’t know them cuz you don’t live in that world.
Right? Yes. So
Stephanie: that, I mean that was one of the biggest things for me is like this under mining. I don’t know if undermining is the right word, but it’s like the backhanded compliments
Heather Alice: right. There we go. Backhanded compliments. Don’t
Stephanie: worry. Don’t worry. You’ll get it next time. Or, you know, you just need to do this X, Y, Z, and, or you’re not, you’re just not that strong in business.
Like you’re more of a people person or, you know, like
Heather Alice: mm-hmm, ,
Stephanie: you know, just like that kind of stuff. That for a long time, I started to kind of believe, you know? Yeah.
Heather Alice: I love that. Yeah. The best. So competition and backhanded, Compli. Oh, Steph, you’re more of a people person. You’re not that great at business.
What I’m giving you a compliment. You’re great with people, right? So I love that. Okay. So those are two, one it’s they’re competitive with you. Jordan Peterson, the psychologist says, how do you know you have a real friend, two things, one, you can share successes, and they are genuinely happy for you. They are clapping for you as loud as you would want a friend to clap as much as you would clap for them.
And the second thing is you can tell them very bad news and they will be sad with you. So they are genuinely in your corner. Competition doesn’t exist because your win is their win because they are as happy for you as they would be themselves. Yeah. Um, I love the, um, backhanded compliment. That’s a, a really good.
Here’s one. I wanna throw out fainted concern for your wellbeing. Okay. So I had, sorry. Oh my God. Yes. Fainted concern. Like they’re really concerned for you, right? They’re gonna come up and help you when really what they’re just trying to do is slow you down. So I had this friend once who, you know, a fellow coach who would always say, Heather, you just work too hard.
Oh, honey. I am really concerned for you. You work too hard. I don’t think you need to launch again this year. Oh, I really don’t think that you need to, you know, consider rolling out another program. I mean, are you taking care of you? Are you resting? Oh, you look, oh, I am you look tired today? I’m like, bitch, I look tired cuz I’m 45 and I got a kid and I got a busy ass life and you know what, because I am tired actually.
That’s why I look tired. Right. But I’m okay. Right. She was constantly knocking me down a peg, knocking me down a peg. And of course this person is your friend. So you listen to them. Okay. Again, nice hater. They’re not a hater hater. If a hater hater said it to me, I wouldn’t listen to it, but this is a person.
Who’s your friend. What I realized after I caught onto this person was, oh my God. Literally the only reason why this girl was telling me this was because she was competitive and she wanted to actually slow me down. It had nothing to do with me. She was trying to plant seeds of doubt by quote unquote, I’m just here to, I’m looking out for you, but never once in any of that, I’m just looking out for you.
Did she ever offer me anything by way of push hard? You can do this. You’ve got this, Heather. You’re almost there. I believe in your dream. True creation is challenging rest when you need to, but sister, keep going. You’re almost at the finish line. I believe in you. This program’s gonna change the world.
Please use your voice. Please take care of yourself, please, please, please rest, you know, drink your water. Go on the walk of the beach, but don’t you dare. Quit. Don’t you dare. That was not what she was saying to me. Mm-hmm . So now I realize the minute that somebody walks into my life and they are talking to me like that, you need to take care of yourself, but they aren’t offering.
The commitment. Like they’re not encouraging me to stay committed to my dreams to me. I now that’s a red flag for me. I’m like, uh, I don’t really know. I don’t really know if that’s somebody I need in my life. I don’t constantly want somebody telling me to hit the break. Never mentioning the fact that yeah, you do need to hit the gas too sometimes, you know?
Stephanie: yeah, definitely. That’s a
Heather Alice: good one. Mm-hmm what’s another one. You think I’ve got another one in my head? Do you get another one? Go ahead. So another one for me is when a person now this one was really hard for me to understand, cuz I just kind of thought, why would you offer this? If you don’t really like, why wouldn’t you just overtly ask?
Right. So when people come up to me and this has really only happened in the last two years, again, this could be your coaching PR it could be any aspect of your life, right? It doesn’t have to just be business. When people walk up to me and go, Heather, how can I support you? Mm-hmm I’m. Okay. Well, what, like for what, like, I, my instant reaction is to understand reciprocity needs to be there.
Like, I, I kind of want to know. Okay. Like, cool. But like, what are you getting out of it? There needs to be reciprocity. And when I ask that recipro, that, that question of reciprocity back, they’ll go, oh no, I, I don’t need anything. I’m just, oh, I, I don’t have any I’m good. I’m just here to support you. I’m like, no, you’re not.
Mm-hmm . And also, so what I’ve learned is why would you wanna support someone and get nothing in return? People who have ulterior motives, aren’t willing to tell you what they really want. And they might not know what they really want. They, they might be genuinely, you know, there’s a benevolent side to this as well.
Right? I’m not saying they don’t actually wanna support me, but what I am saying is. If they are not aware of what is their right, by the way, it is your right to receive an equal measure. That what you give that is a law of this universe, the law of reciprocity. And if you aren’t aware of what you desire and deserve.
Back from the support you offer a person, you do not need to be offering that support because what will happen is you walk up to the person and you go, how can I support you? And the person goes, here’s how you can support me. Thanks. And then you give your support. And then because you had an ulterior motive to receive something back from it.
but you didn’t tell the person, you didn’t speak it. You’re doing this manipulative bullshit where you’re trying to get the person to be ingratiated to you so that you can then turn around and ask for a favor. Okay. Because you’ve given this and that, then the person takes the support. And then when you ask for help, they’re like, I’m sorry, I’m busy now.
You’re pissed. I do all of these things to help people. And they just never, you didn’t say what you wanted back. All you said was I’m here to support you. And so now you feel bad. You see what I’m getting at? So, oh yeah. That’s what I found like I’ve learned a red flag is if somebody can’t tell me how I can support them in return, like specifically, how can I also be in the reciprocity because I want to be in the reciprocity.
I, I actually deeply want to give back to people who support me and what this a major lesson for me has been. if that person can’t tell me what they would like to receive, I am not to receive support from them. Mm-hmm yeah, because they’re not like, first of all, how am I gonna know what you want back? I’m not like that’s not my job to be figuring out what you wanna receive back.
And also it’s unfair. For you to expect something out of me in re in this, you know, Hey, you owe me one, this unspoken man, which I find to be highly manipulative, by the way, I’m gonna give something to you for the soul and express purpose of having you be ingratiated. To me, it’s kinda like the godfather, right?
That you owe me a favor, right? yeah. You know, like, I, I also am not gonna be on the hook for something that you unconsciously or secretly want from me that I might not be willing to give. you know, so again, this is, this is really, really it’s the underbelly, right? Like, even as I’m saying this, I’m like, holy shit.
Like this is really the shadow side of it, the nitty nitty gritty. But in knowing it and knowing it, you can start to avoid it. And I also see it as like protecting that other person. Yeah. I also see it as being very, very kind, not nice maybe because you know what my answer is now, when people say that to me, what do you want?
And they’re like, well, that’s rude. I’m like, it’s not rude. I’m protecting you. And I’m protecting myself. What do you want? You can’t support me and get nothing in return. I don’t, first of all, I don’t know you that well, you have to be like, like you and I stuff, we’ll trade back and we’re soul sisters.
Right. We’ve transcend, like we know there’s reciprocity there. We know it’s, there doesn’t need to be any conversation about that, you know, but for people that maybe, you know, you don’t have a decade with that. Aren’t that. Really strong connection. You might be surprised how many people you have in your life that are doing this to you.
That you weren’t aware of. And that was our case in 2020 and 2021, I realized there was a lot of people in my life that were only there under this quid pro quo scenario. Yeah. And when they wanted to cash a check that I didn’t know, I wrote that they perceived me writing because I let them write an email for me.
Right. And by the way you asked, I didn’t ask you , um, you know, they were all kinds of pissed, so it’s really about. Being willing to see with sober eyes, the people that are actually expecting that from you and then actually loving them enough to not allow them to do that to themselves and to you. Yeah.
Yeah. So how can I support you without having any fricking clue how reciprocity would be given back mm-hmm
Stephanie: mm-hmm you know, I think another, something that came up for me when you were talking about that and I, I don’t know. if we’ve talked about this, if you’ve experienced as much in the coaching industry, mm-hmm , but you and I have chatted about networking, right.
And the concept of networking and gotcha. We’re in the city of Jacksonville, big ass city here. I don’t see a whole lot of it going on and the stuff that is, I don’t really care to show up to because I, I have a hard time. Just the, the whole, you know, here’s my business card. Call me, let’s do lunch. You know?
I mean, I, I really struggle with that, but there’s been a couple times. That I have felt like, you know, I’ve been in my company January, it’d be nine years. Oh, wow. And I have a really, I mean, you know, this you’re on my team. Mm-hmm we have a huge freaking team, huge,
Heather Alice: huge, like
Stephanie: automatic, huge network. And there’s been a couple times where.
Yeah, I’ve heard leaders in my company say, just be weary of who you lend influence to, to your team, you know, and I’ve opened that door with certain people and allowed them to, you know, do calls or, you know, events or different things. And I’ve realized that I’ve walked out of a couple of situations like that feeling very used
Heather Alice: because yeah,
Stephanie: the moment it didn’t morph into clients for them.
They were gone right? No longer in my sphere. Mm-hmm um, and likewise meeting another leader in the network marketing industry, you know, I’ve met a handful here locally in other companies. And I hate feeling like, and maybe this is on me, but I’ve tried. I’ve, I’ve really tried with a couple of them, but I hate feeling like if I’m not a prospect, they don’t have time for me, you know, mm-hmm mm-hmm
And so to me, these, these types of interactions, like in the business realm, in our industries, like they make me feel like the nice hat. You know, to yeah. You know what I mean? Sure. Like it’s, it kind of, it feels like that to me. Like, so
Heather Alice: it’s on the other side of how can I support you? It’s I don’t give a shit.
Just gimme your network.
Stephanie: it’s like the opposite right, right. Yes. Yeah. I have felt that and I’m like, I don’t, I mean, I really, you know, it irks the shit outta me when people are like, Hey Steph, I know you’re busy, Heather. I know you’re busy. I am busy. You’re busy, but I, I, we’re not, I don’t think we’re way busier than other people.
We’re just super. Yeah,
Heather Alice: not at all. No. With our time everybody’s got the same exact amount of time. Exactly. Like every, I don’t give Oprah. Oprah’s got as much time as we do, right? Yeah. I don’t care who you are. Everybody is here. We’re all just human beings doing the best we can, you know, trying to work it out.
And I think maybe to sum this up, cuz I know we’re at about an hour. I think one of the things that really helps this on any side of it, right. Is to realize that we’re all doing the best to, we can with what we’ve got and that when you really take responsibility for your own Ascension and your own success, a lot of this gets easier.
Oh, yeah. And you will begin to understand the people that are there to glam on ride the coattails. They’ve got something they want from you, which is a natural part of success. It’s not pretty, but it’s true. When you really start to understand that nobody is going to, no one is going to help you as much as you’re supposed to help yourself.
There’s not any one connection. That’s gonna blow it outta the water for you. Like at the end of the day. You’ve gotta build your business. You’ve got to cultivate the life that you want to cultivate and know that you get to make conscious decisions about who comes into your life. And as you take that ownership, you will attract those soul sister friends.
You know that there are people there that genuinely will love you and genuinely do. They are there because they care. And because there is a natural symbiotic relationship. There is a natural reciprocity. It’s not something that you have to sit there and contractually, how can I, it’s not forced, right?
It’s just it’s there. People are happy to do it. You know, I recently found a friend and a, a brilliant woman. I’ve had her on the podcast, her, uh, podcast coming up, her name’s Mariah. I just love her. And she was like, I’ve got a retreat and I’m like, let me promote it for you. I mean, we, I was just like, just let me do it.
I’m gonna write some email. I didn’t, it wasn’t like, oh, let’s do this big thing. And she was like, thanks, man. I got you. You know, you’ll find people like that, that you are genuinely like, want to give and they will wanna give to you too. And I think that’s what we’re after we’re, after that real. True close, connected relationship that it just is like you and I didn’t sit down and plan this.
We didn’t plan it with, you know, it just is. Right. So I think it’s trusting that. And the foundation is you gotta give yourself permission to ascend and to also know that it’s on you. To be successful and there’s no table. You’re gonna go saddle up to where that person is gonna be able to take you there.
If Oprah called me tomorrow, I wouldn’t have, which will never happen tomorrow, right? Like not gonna happen maybe one day, but I have no illusion. That’s not gonna like blow my business up. Who gives a shit. So like you and 50,000 million other people were on Oprah, like who cares, who cares at the end of the day?
It’s how well do you treat your clients? Like how much value do you put in the world? Do you lead with a good heart? You know, are you well intentioned? Are you doing, you know, the best that you can? So, yeah, there’s
Stephanie: no lucky break. You know, it is. I think the biggest message here is giving yourself permission to be successful and to grow into that higher.
Version of yourself to raise that leadership lid to like by, by all accounts to say yes to yourself and it gets easier. It really does because it’s that the boat gets real heavy when not everybody in it’s
Heather Alice: rowing, man. that is so true. Yeah. Fucking heavy when not everybody’s rowing, that’s less people, but easier and easier.
That’s the flow and the ease and the alignment. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thanks Steph. Oh, so tell us where we can find you. So Steph has tell us about your podcast and then where we can find you. I want you guys to listen to Steph’s podcast too. Yes, I,
Stephanie: um, and you’d be proud of me. I’m up to the double digits. I think I’m like on episode 13 right now.
Heather Alice: awesome. No, you gave me the
Stephanie: best advice. I mean, I wouldn’t have my podcast if it wasn’t for you, like literally. Telling me girl, I’m coming over. We’re installing some shit on your laptop. You’re gonna have a podcast. um, I talk about, you know, anything and everything, hon, honestly, that’s on my heart.
That’s helped me really around the realm of business and personal growth and professional development. I love the Enneagram. So I talk a lot about that. Mm-hmm I am on, I have my own, well, my website’s live Stephanie shawny.com and I have a, um, you know, of course I’m on Instagram. My podcast is the alpha energy
Heather Alice: podcast.
There we go. Okay. Yes. And your Instagram handle is
Stephanie: it is the alpha energy collective or it’s Mrs. Shag, M R S S H a G cuz nobody can spell Shawny. So , it’s been that forever. And of course I’m on Facebook and LinkedIn too, but yeah. Awesome.
Heather Alice: I’m around. Yeah. Check out our podcast. Thank you so much. Step. If you’re interested, we’re gonna put some links to plexus.
If you’re interested in learning more about Stephanie’s plexus business, I always kid and say, there’s not a moment. I don’t have plexus in me or on me. I’m constantly on a plexus product. It’s fantastic. So if you wanna learn more about that, we’ll have links in the show notes and a link to Stephanie’s website and where you can find her on Instagram.
Thank you so much for being here. Step. I love. Thanks for having me sister love you. That is a wrap for today’s show. Thank you from the bottom of my feels for showing up today in your power and in your willingness to let your intuitive self lead. And if you are still working your way to your first 50 to 100 K in your coaching practice, I have two incredible free resources to help you fast pass this process.
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